Women Leading Validation Spotlight: Avital Avitsur Business Development and Entrepreneur

This month’s episode of Women Leading Validation, Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo CEO of ProcellaRX interviews Avital Avitsur. Avital is the Co-Founder and Chief Business Officer at Validify, an innovative company helping regulated companies to automate the risk analysis and validation processes.
 
Avital is a CPA with experienced in mergers & acquisitions (M&A), financial accounting, securities regulation, transaction support and corporate finance. Strong sales professional with a master’s degree focused on international business, trade, and tax law.

Few years ago, Avital decided to pivot her career and use her vast knowledge in the Israeli hi-tech industry and started a partnership program in her former company. 3 years ago, a friend from her army service offered her to join "Validify" as a co-founder to bring her business and partnership experience, and since then she is a female entrepreneur that likes to share her journey with others to encourage other women to join the arena.

*Disclaimer: Podcast guest participated in the podcast as an individual subject matter expert and contributor. The views and opinions they share are not necessarily shared by their employer. Nor should any reference to specific products or services be interpreted as commercial endorsements by their current employer.

This is a joint Podcast production of ProcellaRX and KENX

Transcript

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 0:00

Well, welcome avatar. It's nice to see you. It's been a while since we actually met in person in March in San Diego at the connects conference. And I'm so happy that you've agreed to join us on women leading validation podcast.

Avital Avitsur: 1:37

Thank you, Dori, I'm super honored and happy to be here. Take part on this important initiative that you're leading in their web in their living CSV. I think it's important and I definitely believe in this forum. Yes, you

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 1:55

were in the room when we live, we launched and kicked off for the first time and we had about, I don't know, 25 women in the room, I think in March something to that effect. And since that time, we've had multiple meetings at different conferences and enrolled some more folks. And we're getting a good wave of a following here. So I'm really excited about that. We thought that bringing you to the podcast would be a great thing for a variety different reasons. And one is your story. And so I would love for you to share who you are and how you came to be at a connects Conference, which is perhaps not where you even thought you'd ever be.

Avital Avitsur: 2:36

Through a true so I started in a very different place. And thank you, I would love to share my story. So I like to start with presenting myself. My name is Salvador, I'm from Israel. And I'm the fourth of five sisters. So I really like to share this piece of information because I think it gives a nice idea to people that I'm very good in negotiation. And I'm, you know, I know how to shine in a crowd. This is part of my DNA. Today, I'm one of the co founders and I'm the Chief Business Officer at verify. We are IT risk and compliance management platform for a life science companies. And this is definitely not where I thought I would be in this part of my life. I started as a lawyer and accountant, I studied the both and I did the internship in both. And throughout my career, I got to be part of amazing deals both in both sides. So I was in a deal in a consultant at KPMG, Tel Aviv for a few years. And I was part of very few interesting deals. And I got to see inside companies and to be on the consulting side and advise CEOs on purchasing companies. And it was very interesting. But not my ending point. So I moved to my law internship. And I did it in our banking team. And I was part of a few very big banking loans. Deals. And it was very interesting. But again, I didn't feel that this is my ending point. I felt like in both in both sides, I was like a bystander. I was not inside the company. And I really want it to be the person that makes the decision that delivers it and then you get to see the fruits. Yes, right. Yeah, definitely. And I and it was like a phase that I thought for few months. It took me a while to understand why I'm not that happy where I was because I studied for many years both. And then it took me a few months to find my entry point. Because I decided I want to move to high tech which in Israel it's like a very, very Have you done a live scene, but I didn't know where where to start which guy like which position is the right position for me. And it took me few months of interviews and talking to people and consulting friends and family to understand where I want to be. And I got the opportunity after, like six months of interviews, to start partnership program in a high tech company. And it was actually starting something that was not there before. So it was a good and a bad thing. It was good because I got the opportunity to do something. And it was bad because I could not learn from anyone. Yeah, and I eventually I spent there three years and I started this program. And it was very, it was successful. And I think it was a very nice learning experience for me, because I got to learn so many things that actually serve me today, I got to learn what is SAS, I got to learn what it's like to be how to do sales, which I never did before. So I got to learn so many things. And it was, even though it was hard and challenging, I got to learn a lot. And in a way, I also think it was important for me, as a person to know that I can do new things. Sometimes you have a career path and you like it's very, you know, it's like similar to others around you, or it's like you think of something and you feel like you have to follow it till the end. But along the way, you don't feel like it's the right thing for you to, to continue on this path. And when you try to do something new, and you get to succeed, or even not, it's, it's like proving to yourself that you can do other things as well, you can be successful in other places, as well. So I think it's very, it was very refreshing for me to learn that about myself, you

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 7:04

think that that's something unique and different between being a woman, you know, and because one of the some of the things I've been taking notes, as you were writing, speaking is part of that. Trying something new, thinking that you're supposed to do this specific thing, like these kind of, you know, narratives that we've had as women growing up, and whether we were taught or learned, you know, all those sorts of things. But following your gut intuition in that journey, do you think that that has something to do with it?

Avital Avitsur: 7:38

I think it's, it's even harder as a woman to follow your heart in a way, because we have different phases, I will call it in our career During our career, like breaking the seas and young children tome that are traditionally are a part of the woman's, let's call it like a responsibility. So I think it's harder to take the leap as a woman because you see so many other things on your plate that you don't want to add another risk or another effort. But I think that everything is is possible if you decide to, to put the effort into it if you decided this is what you want to do right now.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 8:30

And right. But it also sounds like you made choices along the way. And why I want to kind of hone in on this because it's actually I was just having another conversation with another woman leader about this is that when we have those choices to make, right, and then we have this whole list of all the things that will either be continued or have to discontinue in order to make that choice. Right. Whereas I feel like that list for men is rather short, right? It's the career path is the career path. And that's what they're going to do. Right. And that list that we have that running list in our head doesn't exist.

Avital Avitsur: 9:10

Yeah, yeah. So it's I definitely agree. And I think it's part of, you know, this is part of why I make sure that I speak out I want to be heard I want to be seen I want other women to see it's possible. I'm not I'm not a superwoman. I'm not special. I mean, I am special to my parents, but you know, other women to know that it's possible if you decide you can do it. There are prices to pay along the way. Yes. But if you decide that you want to make a pivot in your career, to be happier, to be more to be it feel more fulfillment, everything is possible if you are also willing to pay the prices make the decisions like the quality.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 9:57

Yeah, yeah. So your mom Um, yeah. And two young kids. Yeah, correct. Yeah.

Avital Avitsur: 10:06

Yeah, three kids, seven, five and one year old baby, which was born during my intrapreneurial journey. Yeah.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 10:17

So has that been, how's the the juggle between that, um,

Avital Avitsur: 10:23

it's been challenging, you know, I am. First of all, I have to say that I have the most supporting has been that. I feel like he sees me as I am, you know, like, we also met during school, so he knew who I am before. He knew what I wanted to accomplish in my life, you know, that I'm ambitious, and I want to be successful in my career. So this is kind of something that we both married into. And I think this is also like the decision making is of the married couple as well, like he decided, as a couple that some phases are more of your effort, and others are for the husband to do more effort. I think it's definitely a mutual decision. But you know, I feel like, I feel like I want to show my kids who I am, how I want to show them a happy mom and not happy because I'm on vacations or resting, happy, because I feel like I'm doing something that makes me happy. I feel like I'm accomplishing something for myself, as a career woman, as a wife, as a mother, as a daughter, as a whole person. So I think it's also I see it as something that I want to model for my kids.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 11:52

Modeling Behavior is the number one way to affect change that you want to see in the world. Right. So I wholly echo that sentiment. So COVID has, you know, come and gone. And well, it's, I don't know, probably should retract that statement. Um, you know, it's common changed, I guess. How has that changed how you're doing, you know, your business development and work in the world has that?

Avital Avitsur: 12:24

Yeah, so we actually started solidify, the, our solution was ready a month because before COVID, we actually add our trip plan to the US to meet with prospects on March 2020. So it affected us in a major way. And like, I think, in most companies, it made us rethink everything and reorganize things. Because if, before that, we thought that we travel and we sell in person face to face like it used to be in the world. So today, everything is much more online, and even events like conferences moved to be online. So everything adapted to the new situation. And I think only now we can feel that events and meetings are more and more going back to be face to face. But definitely it has it had a big effect on our business. Things move moved slower. Companies, especially because we are selling to the pharma industry. In those let's say three past years, it wasn't in the bigger like, you know, it wasn't their goal to move to new technologies, or to solve these kind of problems. First, they had other problems to address in only the last few months. We feel everything. Like coming back. Yeah, coming back, we see more action, we see more. Companies starting to be interested in adopting new tools, thinking about the regulation again. And so it's definitely showing us that poverty is not gone, but it's starting to come back

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 14:22

changing. So can you tell us a little bit about the solidify and the solution you bring to the table? I think it's an important topic.

Avital Avitsur: 14:30

Sure. So actually, like a bit more than three years ago, we were part of an FDA webinar, where they discussed the trial they just finished with few of the Big Pharma in the US. And what they checked was how are the validation and risk assessment processes work so far? And they actually discovered that 80% of the deviations Due to the testers or errors in the test trips. So this is actually where they first announced that they are going to be encouraging automation in validation processes. And this is actually the background of why we started solidifying. So both of my co founders don't go are part part of this industry for many years. I, as you understand, I came from a more business side of things. But they heard the webinar and they thought, This is amazing actually, to allow an automated solution to be part of this manual, paper based binder based process. And to bring something that is more, let's say, more a reasonable to use if you're using cloud solutions, and this is how we actually started solidifying. So we offer automated risk analysis, we actually offer the companies to do everything in automated way, we produce all the documents in an automated way. And then they can decide in what level of risk, they want to do the checks. And with that, they go and they perform the other tests. So instead of if the, the industry was, in the past, or even in most companies still, today, they are more busy with collecting the evidence for the auditors and to think how it looks into, you know, hold the papers and keep the binders. So what you're actually offering them is to be focused on the risk, you control the process, you own the process, you decide in what risk level you want to live, if you feel that you need to live in a high risk level or in a lower risk, if you feel like you don't need that. And then you can manage everything in in an automated way and keep everything on the cloud in a way that actually complements your cloud solution. And not the other way, when you print everything and you keep the papers. And we already see with our customers that it's way more logic to them into their into the with the way that they run their business. You know, companies today by technologies, they want to be advance they want to be like, you know, in the first row of technology, but then some of the teams in the company actually use papers and do things manually. So we want to change that. Yeah.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 17:52

Oh, well, you're in good company, I would love to change that, too. Unfortunately, I think we're living in an industry that is, you know, continues to be laggards and in adopting technology for its true use, right. And you mentioned a couple of times holding on to that paper holding on to those binders, that makes them feel comfortable. And it's getting to be I often say we really want to be more uncomfortable and uncomfortable conversations, to be able to move things forward. And I think that's one of the things that I think a solution like solidify what you serve and offer on those particular platforms really help folks move the needle in those areas, if they use it. to its full extent could be so that's awesome. So given that, you, you know, didn't grow up in life sciences, right. And yet here you are making making your mark, what do you think about you know, being in the space? Is it different than being in you know, the finance space and the legal space?

Avital Avitsur: 19:02

Yeah, so, definitely, yes, it's space. Um, I have to say that in the beginning, I thought it would be it will be the same. You know, I grew up interesting. I grew up in a in a business environment. In my years at KPMG, I, I met and I met many kinds of industries and companies and when you do deal advisory you like every two weeks, you can meet a different sector. It's really nice. So I thought, you know, I can, like just jump into another industry, but I have to say it's not it's it's definitely different. I was surprised with how slow things are moving.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 19:57

In one

Avital Avitsur: 19:59

way you can understand that, you know, because these companies are dealing with heavy lifting, it's very you know, these are people's lives, everything is like super heavy FDA.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 20:13

But um, so here's what I want to challenge that, okay? Because like, look at the car industry right? Old too, right? But the some of the technologies and what we're doing in car industry, in in they've proven to pivot and shift to new technologies at a at a pace that is really quite if you put them on the maps is really different. Now, granted, there are life science companies and technologies and drugs that we're producing on mass, but we're more talking about in the validation space within life sciences, we are still so far behind of where some of our broader companies, technologies and r&d are. And it's an immense, you know, at the base level of how to get that up. But, you know, to embrace technology, it's, I think, part of what you were saying before, too, is this buzz of wanting to do something new and different. That is also what we see in the world, right? And yet, when you slow it down, and it's like, oh, no, no, no, we still need to do that on paper, we still see all this stuff. And it's breaking through that mindset shift. And I don't know what how to crack that code. Because it's, it's what is at the day to day, wanting all of us to do better, right? And actually live by what they say that they want, right? They say they want to do this. And in order to do this, you know, vendors, like yourselves are bringing solutions to the table that can do those things. Right. But how to get them to fully embrace and be on board with all of what you have to offer. I can imagine I wonder, you know, some of maybe not maybe let's check this out. I mean, your new, relatively new vendor, right? In the market. And I wonder if you have a sense of how well, folks are actually utilizing the tools that you're providing? Like, are they you know, just using 10% of it? Are they using 50% of it? Like, how is adoption been free

Avital Avitsur: 22:20

guys? Yeah, so we actually get to see, I think, over 90% of Yeah, of the, let's say the potential of the solution. Yeah. So we do accompany the customers for a while. And we want to see that they actually understand everything, since they are used to different processes, manual processes, that they have done for years, we want to show them how, how everything is working in the automated manner. And we want to make sure that they understand the full potential and also implemented in the, in the, in the way we meant them to use it. So we definitely walk them through the process for a while. And we see over 90% of, of the full potential of the solution working for them. And they actually use it, I wouldn't say every month, but they actually use it every, let's say at least every quarter. And this is actually part of what we wanted to accomplish as the goals of solidify three years ago, we wanted companies to make sure that they are validated in an ongoing way, you know, not just once every few months. Like they do it today because it's manual, and they take it takes them months to do it. And I think one of the first meetings that I took, together with the duo, my co founder was in one of the Israeli companies. I wouldn't say which one because it's a story. But I wanted to join meetings to learn, obviously, I knew. And we asked them how long it takes them today to validate the full system. And the girl said, like it takes us like the last validation took us six months. And I remember sitting there being like, amazed by this number because first of all verify offers you to take it to four days in the beginning. And after we learn your system, it will take you a few hours to validate your all system. So if someone is sitting with me in a room and telling me it took them six months, it's amazing. I mean, you leave at risk throughout this time. After this time, you don't know what's happening inside your box. And it's like something that's in the inner city. They live in peace not not very much in peace but like you said, you know, I'm on the connects event in March when we met You have one of your session was on implementing. And you said, I remember you said, there was a client that wanted the change, but then they pushed back everything you offered. So there are so they want to be advanced, they want the technology, they want everything, but then you give them the solution, and they just push you back. They they're scared, they afraid of the effects, they don't know how it will affect the team. The process, everything is like an issue.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 25:31

So I just had a really great someone share with me a really great analogy, I think this will resonate with you with what you're saying. So you know, you have a plant that's in a container that's root bearing, you know, it's overgrown in the pot, and it absolutely needs to come out, right. So what do you do? Right? You take it out of the pot, and the pot, then the roots are then all free. And in that state, it's like, Oh, my God, like what's new? What can what's possible, like, I can't believe I'm not in this small little pot anymore, right? And you don't get, you have to get over that fear of being in the, you know, you're constrained in the pot, we're gonna give you the tools, right, you get out of this pot, we have all these tools that are available. And it's the getting back into a new pot, right with new structure that's room for growth. That is the hard part, I think, for many companies to embrace some of the technologies that we're making out there. And to have that leap of faith from being fearful to being the the new comfort, right, they knew the old pot, they they knew they were constrained, they knew that everything was gonna take six months, they knew that someone was always going to ask for more documentation, like there's all these things that hold us back in that old pot, and it's not allowing us to really thrive and get to that new place. And I think a lot of us have to, you know, help navigate through that uncomfortable state of, yeah, so we're going to do risk in a new way. Right? And we're going to evaluate that in in a new way. And by the way, not everything is that important? Right?

Avital Avitsur: 27:20

I, you know, I think it's very, it's very, it's so human to be scared of something new. The bigger part of the of even open land,

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 27:32

you know, open land, yeah,

Avital Avitsur: 27:34

it's scary. I don't know, my new borderlines, I don't know where I can go, would I go to a wrong place, they do something that is not the right way. I think this is part of of the change that we you, me everything in this. Like, you know, all the people in this environment are trying not even to sell yet. Just trying to change the shift that mindset of how things can can work in such a better manner. Like you said, not everything is even important. First, try to see, if you can prioritize your work, you're working for six months for nothing, on not important things, items that you're just wasting your time over just because you're doing everything, try to prioritize the work, try to decide on what risk of level you even need, or want or your company desired to be. So this is part of the shift that I'm feeling and let me know if you feel the same, but I'm feeling that it let's say in the last 12 months, there is movement in this area, I do feel in here. Not as many push backs, as I heard in the beginning, from customers. In the beginning, it was something that was so far for so like automated solution for this area was so like, you know, something that is so innovative and from the future. These days, it's something that many companies are considering. So they are considering between solidify and other solutions. And I have to tell you, the competition makes me happy. It makes me feel like something is changing. And it doesn't matter for me if you decide to use validity for something else, as long as you are changing the way that you are working.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 29:37

Yeah, I 100% agree. I think that there's I think we're at a tipping point. And I think that there are really good indicators that things are shifting, and at the same time, I think we're competing against dollars in the way that change cost money. You know, and and I'm not just talking physical money It's it's resources, right, it's reskilling people. It's, it's really helping educate your staff in a new way, being willing to say, Okay, so maybe we don't spend so much time making the paper here, but we spend more time writing good requirements. Right? You know, understanding what testing methodologies really make sense for this requirement. Right? What types of tools do you need in order to test that effectively? Right. So I think that we're, we need to be asking new questions. And I think each of those new questions takes a constraint on our resources, time, money, people, and and now it's the choice, are you going to spend more time and effort on your people to shift what they work on? Right. And I think that's a leadership conversation. It's not the the management and the and the people that actually doing the work, it has to be from the top down saying, Yeah, this is what matters most less align our values across the board, right? So that it's really driven home to make meaning at the end of the day, because everyone wants to feel like what they do. move something forward has meaning in the world. That's why you come to this with a smile, like you took a circuitous route to where what you're doing today, because you, you wanted to feel like you were shifting and moving things in a way that made you aligned with your happiness with your who you are, right, that authentic thing also can live in an organization. I think it's just comes down to the leadership within the organizations to take that step. Right. And I think the masses want that, you know, they want that leadership to come and say, yep, we're going to change the way we do this. And I think, you know, folks like yourself, and myself and others that are leading this sort of conversation, I think we are in a really good place to for that tipping point to, to spillover. So I'm hopeful.

Avital Avitsur: 32:09

Yeah, me too. Me too. I definitely see more and more engagement in this area, and I think every webinar that there is recently the talks about the FDA and the change the way you're playing like, you know, like the new guidance, you see very high interest in that. And I think it's part of what you say, like we are reaching the tipping point. Definitely, yeah.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 32:38

Yeah, even with everything saying that draft and draft and draft and coming and coming and coming, I think that the, the part of that wanting is a leadership body to say, do this, right. It's okay. Right, and having some validation in and of itself, to make those moves so that folks don't feel like they're taking that leap of faith without some guidance. And I think it's some top, you know, senior executive leadership levels at the quality and the CIO levels to say, this is also really super important to us. And we have to change. Right. So I think it's both sides. Yeah, yeah. So women leading validation, we've started this initiative with connects and you've been definitely a wonderful welcome voice in that mix. Some of the, you know, how is sponsorship or mentorship? How do those sorts of things show up for you? And can you speak a little bit to why you're passionate about them?

Avital Avitsur: 33:43

Yeah, so I think, um, I think mentorship is and I think, especially for women, could be like, a frightening word, something that I don't know what is actually meant to be, who is my mentor? How can I find myself a mentor? What am I supposed to get out of this relationship? I think men do it more naturally. And for women, and for me, myself, I can say for myself that it's been in the beginning, a bit awkward not knowing how how to use it, how to find a mentor, and, and navigate throughout this relationship. And one thing that I learned is that you just like Look around you look at the women around you or even men, you know, mentor can be anyone. But if you feel more comfortable to speak with a women or you think that this is like the kind of mentorship that you need to get, just approach to people around you and start the conversation. Start by telling like who you are sharing your story, what your goals are, you don't really need to come to a conversation Oh, with a specific goal, you shouldn't, you can just share your story. And, and wait quietly in the end and most time, the other person on the other side will start the conversation themselves. Sometimes they would have a thought about what you just shared, or an idea, or they want to connect you with someone that can help you. And a friend, share with me something that she uses in, in these kinds of conversations, and I really liked it. So like, you, you share your story, you share your thoughts, and then you can ask the other side, like you can ask the mentor? Is there anything I should ask? And I didn't ask them anything, give me something they can, like, show me something that I missed. Another question is, is there anyone else I should talk to? So if they think of someone that I didn't think of, or a new lead, or a new idea, they can tell me? And I'm less thinking is I really like it, is there something I can do for you? And actually positioning myself not as a mentee as someone you can talk to as well. We are having a conversation is not I think for women, the the hierarchy. Situation in myth, mentor and mentee can be awkward or weird, or they don't know how to approach it. And by that question, you actually create a conversation, we're actually talking, maybe there's something I can do for you as well. Maybe in my network, I can introduce you with someone, or you can pick my mind about your business or thoughts. And I can add or share something. So I think I learned and I got better with asking for help and looking for mentors in different phases of my career. And definitely in my intrapreneurial journey, the in the last three years, which is like a roller coaster. And I think people that I meet along the way, I feel more comfortable to talk to you and ask for advice. And even just like I said, share my story, hear what they have to say. If they have any ideas for me, I really I really embrace it. I really like to hear other people's opinions, because sometimes you you are so into your thoughts. You don't see what's just in front of you and talking to people just can open your mind.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 37:41

Yeah, when so I, one of the things I hear what you're saying is CO creating this, the the relationship, right? It's, you know, it's giving of yourself as well as its, I know, for myself, the giving and the receiving often are two different, you know, activities and energies from me, right? I'm a giver by nature, right? Asking for something in return is really hard for me, right? And so that's, it's like it's an energy shift. And I still work on that every day. And in but co creating that dialogue to be able to have a space where I could pick up the phone and call avatar and say, I'm having a hard day. This this and this happened not sure exactly what's going on. But you know, can you help me here like having that be a relationship that I foster, throughout my career, as I've gotten older is something that I'm able to do something that I didn't do you know, if I was to tell my, my, my younger self, right, learn this, I probably would have been much different in my early career, right. And so do you have any advice to young women starting out? I know it's not necessarily traditional. So any thoughts?

Avital Avitsur: 39:08

I like if I have to give like advice to my younger self, I would say just do it. Do anything you wish. I think part of my nature is overthinking about things, planning everything. 30 steps I had just to get the courage to do something now will work out you know you can do and I'm talking now to anyone listening you can do anything. If you decide to put yourself into something. And it's something that you are passionate and you want to do it and you believe in it. So it's something that you can definitely do. And I you know, I think it's something that also resonates with the idea of of this forum Having the women Linnet leading CSV forum is something that we can actually be together in talk to each other, younger and more experienced women together in one space sharing experiences. And I think even in the session that we had in March, we got to hear different thoughts and ideas from different women, it was amazing, because this is actually something that helps creating these kinds of spaces. And I think part of, of being a women leader is being out there all the time showing other women that there is space for everyone everywhere. I think that as more and more women in this industry of CSV will be out there, other women that are in a parallel career path or in a lower positions will see them and they can see where they can go up to what kind of careers they can have. And it's actually, you know, it's it's, it will help us thrive inside our group, in our group in different groups.

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 41:16

Yeah, it's infectious, and I am part of when I first met you, and I continue to still feel like it's your, your, your life, your life, you're like, every passion comes through with you avatar that is just totally infectious and wonderful to be around. And that that brings, you know, with all your intelligence and what you've cultivated, and what you've brought with, with the glimmers of validity by like, it solidifies everything. And that really, it's awesome. And that's who you are. And it's a pleasure to know you. And thank you so much for for sharing your story today. You know, I would hope unfortunately, you're we're far away. But I'm hoping to get to Europe this year. And maybe we can meet up and continue having more conversations with us. I think it's really super important. And I appreciate all the time you've had with us today. Thank you. Is there any last words you want to share with folks?

Avital Avitsur: 42:27

Know I would like to offer anyone here to follow me on LinkedIn, follow solidify. I also run in CSA discussion group on LinkedIn where we share thoughts share ideas, discussing the new CSA approach. So follow me join me. Yeah,

Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo: 42:46

we'll put we'll put all those links in the show notes. When we publish make sure everyone knows how to find you at solidify. It is a pleasure. Thanks again, Avatar.

Avital Avitsur: 42:58

Thank you, Dori. Thank you so much.